Air Force training (Reaper 2) earlier tonight

Placid

Active Member
Sep 21, 2014
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I really enjoyed the informal air training we did earlier this evening, thanks to everyone who participated and to those on the ground in other squads that called targets out for us.

I think with 2 libs guarded by 6 mossies we became a pretty much unstoppable force and managed to close down whatever area we moved into and force our enemies to cower inside their spawn rooms (until the server bugging out rained on our parade). I would really like to continue to do this type of thing as I think we offered some good support to those on the ground and really had the numbers to pull it off.

Post launch I will most likely pump certs into my lib first of all; anyone who likewise intends to spend a lot of certs on air early on please get in touch so we can continue to train and develop this further.

Thanks,
 
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RedSnow

Guest
it was awesome Placid. i was in command Alpha Reaver 1 and the up to date info about enemy's was a great help.
 
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fbh

Guest
It was good fun been in the air with a squad rather than flying alone tbh and it has got a lot of advantages going for it.
[ul]
[li]Intel on areas and scouting is sooo much quicker[/li]
[li]When called to an area we quite literally smashed pretty much everything[/li]
[li]When at the southern most plant (forgot name) we cleared the skies effectively[/li]
[li]The ability to call for assistance when in trouble (Scythe on a Lib) is easier to respond to[/li]
[li]2 - 3 aircraft hitting 1 Sundy tends to make sure it stays down[/li]
[/ul]
Only issues been that cause this is something that is not certed in from the beginning the Liberator pilots were running low on resources quite often. We did discuss this tho on coms and having both pilot and gunners specing for Libs means that when 1 gets shot down and is on a timer the other can still pull another Liberator.

I know a few of us were rammed out of the sky by some random greenie couple of times, I lost 2 Mosquitoes roughly to that, but on the all I don't think anyone in the squad actually hit someone else... correct me if am wrong on that btw.

I do feel that this is a very real possibility in that the air can do a LOT of damage in a very short amount of time when focused like that. There was a couple of times when we had to be cautious and I recall 1 time when the AA was that heavy we couldn't really push in too far.

Couple of recommendations that I think may help. Tips I normally use myself when airborne:
[ol]
[li]The squad waypoint should not be placed directly upon the objective but rather just a bit past it.[/li]
[li]Setting your own personal waypoint as a means of locating the nearest tower to rearm and repair.[/li]
[li]Having set SOP's for particular scenarios.[/li]
[li]Learning when and where to over extend.[/li]
[li]Numerous target engagements.[/li]
[/ol]
1: When I was giving some lessons to DLC about flying I made the point about waypoints. Setting the squad waypoint just past the objective gives a more "area of effect" to the air operations. As it should be seen as "this is the point that you don't go past". It's then a constant visual reminder of where the current area of operations extends to when in a given area.

2: personal waypoints been set on the nearest friendly tower for rearm and repair helps again with quick visual aids. Most of us are not 1090% familier with every aspect and terrain of all the continents yet. The only area I do know 100% is West side of Indar, excavation and southwards. The waypoint then gives a constant visual reference point.

3:SOP's, for those not knowing the term, stands for Standard Operating procedure, or what you are going to do in a certain situation.
For major bases this differs from smaller outposts and so on. De-clawing towers is quicker with numerous Mossys, as is taking out priority targets IE - sunderers. This SOP ranges from de-claw duty's, to neutralising hostile spawn points, to air patrol and escort roles - as well as pinpoint targetting when targets are called from the ground.
Maybe a future use for SL smoke effects on areas that need Air attention.

With set SOP's each pilot knows what to do in set situations.

4: The knowledge of when and where to extend and when not to push. This is generally learnt from experience and can mean difference from knowing where a hostile AA tower is to dying for a few more points. The Squad waypoint should be the set distance which not to push further than.

5: Numerous target engagements is when there is more targets in the air than you are capable of dealing with quickly. In short this means that you spend less time on chasing individual targets for a number of seconds and work on what I refer to as "point and shoot". This basiclly means that if I see 3 Reavers at variying distances I will engage the closest with a burst of the gun before manoeuvring towards the 2nd and another burst, same with 3rd target and so on.
The reason for this is that there is so little time for you to really STICK with 1 target and nail him good, unless he does something stupid early on, so imagine if 3-4 Mosquitoes follow the same role - the movement in the air automatically becomes evasive, multiple targets take damage and when done with more Mosquitoes it means that no 1 Reaver escapes damage, nor can do much about been hit from multiple directions at various times.
As inexperienced pilots WILL try to chase the first Mosquito they see - if that is the case it leaves the other Mosquitoes with chase down duty.

6: And final is that when a target is called and can be acted upon by numerous aircraft the target will not stay active for very long. Aircraft are a power - simple as that. Many like to think that moving 4-5 tanks up to deal with 1 target is key but aircraft operate in 3D terms. And are not limited by such things as low valleys and hills as much as armour is.
It takes 2-3 rocket pod volleys, past nerf, to take out a Sundy. 2 Mosquitoes already damage it to point of no return with 1 pass.
A surgical strike can be very effective when used correctly. It just needs to be learnt - both from the air and from the ground.
I really think about the SL smoke signals from the PL will help in this as the Air squad, Delta as in the case tonight, was a part of Reaper 1 but with it's own channel.
If SL/PL of reaper 1 put down smoke to indicate a location of interest for the air then that becomes a visual sign of "HIT HERE" and that makes the job easier. :)

Just my thoughts anyhow. Feedback appreciated. :)
 

Playbahnosh

Member
Nov 3, 2012
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TBH I never really thought of playing much air in this game. I'm quite a quite good pilot since I've grown up playing space simulator games (Elite, Freelancer, X series, etc), and I was a good chopper pilot in BF2, but in games like these I'm rather stuck to the ground for some reason. BUT, the last two night I somehow got into the air squad, and I'm seriously having fun with you guys. I was flying galaxies before, but now I'm even learning the ins and outs of the mossy and the lib, which is great. Although I haven't spent a single cert on air assets (save for the gal), I was kicking some major reaper ass yesterday with just the base mossy B)

I like how all the air force guys stick together, watch out for each other, and the comms are not flooded with useless garbage. I'm giving it a serious thought to put a considerable amount of my certs into air, and fly with you guys. it's fun :)
 

Mythx

New Member
Sep 26, 2012
241
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I think this did work really well!
I 'fell' into force commander yesterday and it went really well, having a air squad to send out and check the next point or get over to see why a base we just secured is now flashing, to call on when we where getting air battered.

Most notible was over the Weigh station close to NC WG, air was hot and I called in placid
Next thing we have green triagles all over the skies dog fights and hostile libs running or dying softies on the roofs of the building we where entering from ground level where forced to jump to the ground or die horribly.

Was a pitty the game started bugging just hope you had your freedom for the "training" side i tried not to ORDER you about :lol: just call in when we did really need it. it worked so well though.
 

Huller

Certified walrus
Veterans
Nov 6, 2012
710
402
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I might just try joining you some time, I can handle the controls of a mossie reasonably well(I need more practice at hitting stuff tough, I get shot down all the time :p), and am a decent shot as tailgunner for a lib/gal. but first some more practice.
 
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fbh

Guest
While the game is still in its beta phase, last day been Friday and launch Tuesday, it's good to practise on what you want to practise on while the game and starts don't matter as much.
Then you can look at it again from the launch and say "yup, I want to do this or nope I don't want to do this" and so on :)
 
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DLC602

Guest
Dont want to inflate FBH's ego any more but the hour I spent with him flying a low spec mossy was brilliant. We were only hitting small targets and assisting the greenies in caps but I got a kill or 2 and didn't get downed by anyone. Only my poor dog fighting skills took me out (I inverted and hit the ground while screaming "GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE!!") but over all I feel more confident flying a mossy now.

If I wasn't running about in a bus or prowler and enjoying it I might add, then I'd give some serious consideration to flying.

And if you want help to pick things up quick, give FBH a message or whisper and ask for some help
 

Keg

Member
Nov 4, 2012
35
1
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Just a small suggestion here. With the success of air unit I'm reading about here, would it be possible if we dedicated one platoon to air? Renaming Reaper 2 to Reaper 2 (air) would probably do the trick B)
 

Yenzal

New Member
Nov 7, 2012
138
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[quote="McFistingson" post=5861]Just a small suggestion here. With the success of air unit I'm reading about here, would it be possible if we dedicated one platoon to air? Renaming Reaper 2 to Reaper 2 (air) would probably do the trick B)[/quote]

I don't think having vehicle divisions in-game is a good idea. They'll be jerked around between all Reaper teams on the ground or doing their own thing; they will get less information from those on the ground; they will eventually die and have CD on their aircraft or run out of resources; and some good pilots supporting each Reaper team is better than having an entire platoon assisting one Reaper team at a time.

Handling a division dedicated to vehicles is difficult and ineffective, whereas if you have some good air and ground vehicle pilots in each Reaper team they can pull their vehicle when it is needed, get better information on enemy locations and seamlessly integrate back into the infantry or armor.

Of course, some times we should all pull air (and we do), just for fun or to counter mass enemy air.
 
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fbh

Guest
It was understood that the overall PL or FC would have control over the Air side of things during Ops and would go where they suggested. If a Squad wanted some support then the circumstance and threat level would pass up the chain to be assessed by the PL/FC.
If we had 4 Reapers and all 4 Reaper PL's were calling in the air at roughly same time we would be clustered bombed with what to do first.

That's way it is best left to the main player in charge of the Ops.
The CD on vehicles starts as SOON as the vehicle is pulled. My Mossy has only half acquisition certs and takes roughly 8mins to CD. So if your looking at time taken to move around, gather up and move together as well as air patrols that CD becomes irrelevant.

Resources is the bigger area for the Liberator pilots/gunners, but there is already a discussion in place about how to combat that which has made good progress.
The whole as and when needed idea has already been discussed as well and is too slow. As you would have to pull a vehicle when told and then goto the location described. Fastest way is by air, not land, and those that stay focused on the air learn the roles faster than someone who jumps in "when needed".

The air combat itself is much MORE destructive than ANY ground can be. If you find a hostile sunderer you then need to relay that to the other armour who then have to move to a position, clearing ridge lines and structures btw, before they can fire - and more often than not they have other armour shooting back at them.
The air flies up, locates, and then attacks.... 2 Mosquitoes with rocket pods will nail a sundy in 2-3 volleys in a quarter of the time it takes your armour to do the same thing. AND they also see what you DON'T see around the ground.

Stop thinking in 2D terms when you describe various ideas. Aircraft are a very powerful asset to have when it is directed.

If you suddenly get 3 hostile aircraft coming at you then your suddenly "when needed" means that players have to drop what they are doing, wither its repair, medic, in a tank of their own, get to the nearest Air station - spawn an Air vehicle which for the first 6 seconds is an easy target btw, and THEN deal with the air - then you want them to go OUT of the aircraft back to the squad on the ground and back into their previous roles?

That's burning more resources than doing it with a set air side of things. Also spawning any aircraft when under air attack is such a bad idea in the first place.

We have had times when a single or double Mosquito setup was part of a squad and they hit targets called by the Squad leader. That was quite effective at the time as they could scout, deal with pirioty ground targets, chase away hostile aircraft and so forth. Problem is that if they are engaged in air combat it's highly unlikely they will be able to break off suddenly fly to the SL's location to deal with an urgent threat.
But many aircraft in the skies can clear the area quicker, they can deal with other threats quicker as well as act as scouts much quicker than pulling 1 "when needed".

Also the problem with counter pulling aircraft when the enemy mass air is that you have to recall to warpgate, or nearest air tower, all gather together, fly together to hostile area and engage targets.
It's way too slow.
Different skill levels mean that the possibility of friendly incidents (ramming etc) happens more frequently.
You give up any ground you have cleared/covered/defended as well as control points.
Once all the hostile air, or in some cases friendly aircraft, is down you then waste those resources on the aircraft to re-pull armour and re-setup as squads.

The air side of thing already deals with all this and many questions have been asked and already answered.
Having a squad of 4-5 Mossies and 1-2 Liberators at your call means that once they enter an operational area the immediate effect is staggering. And you can check that with SL's who have witnessed this :)
 
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DLC602

Guest
[quote="Yenzal" post=5873]Handling a division dedicated to vehicles is difficult and ineffective, whereas if you have some good air and ground vehicle pilots in each Reaper team they can pull their vehicle when it is needed, get better information on enemy locations and seamlessly integrate back into the infantry or armor.[/quote]

I don't see it as difficult or ineffective. As a PL I don't want to have 3,4,5 of my infantry that I desperately need to take points, flying about chasing targets are their own will. I'm not saying that I won't ever let someone fly as recon works but it needs to be only 1 or 2 AT THE MOST doing it.

Now say you take 2 people to fly mossy's, 2 people in a Lib, then 3 people pull Prowlers... thats 7 people from 24 that can't be used to push on a point. Those 7 people make a difference if we run into another 24 man platoon. I'd sooner take more vehicle drivers than air pilots and have them in Skyguards and other armor.

I'm not saying that I want a division for air or that I don't, but this random training session gave us a massive upper hand during assaults and we could call for close air when needed.

It also gave me a little semi on when you called over the command channel for air support (day dreams about watching libs giving out damage and calling danger close....)
 
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RedSnow

Guest
[quote="McFistingson" post=5861]Just a small suggestion here. With the success of air unit I'm reading about here, would it be possible if we dedicated one platoon to air? Renaming Reaper 2 to Reaper 2 (air) would probably do the trick B)
[/quote]

It was being looked at. But after an awful night trying 3 separate divisions everybody got real annoyed and High Command decided we are not doing that at least for now.
 

Placid

Active Member
Sep 21, 2014
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[quote="fbh" post=5903]What night was this?[/quote]

About 2 weeks ago, when we initially tried divisions. A squad of armour, air, infantry, snipers and inf recon were set up. The approach didn't go very well; the air squad ran out of resources due to an incredibly slow Amerish tick and it was difficult to maintain chain of command between all of the very different divisions functioning at once.

In the last few days however our air ops have been some of the most enjoyable things I've done in ps2 so far and have proven extremely effective imo.

Tonights informal training was no exception and I'd really like to thank everyone who took part. Moo my epic lib bomber racked up >220 kills in a little over 2 hours.

I look forward to doing more air ops with everyone post launch.
 
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fbh

Guest
[quote="Placid" post=6037][quote="fbh" post=5903]What night was this?[/quote]

About 2 weeks ago, when we initially tried divisions. A squad of armour, air, infantry, snipers and inf recon were set up. The approach didn't go very well; the air squad ran out of resources due to an incredibly slow Amerish tick and it was difficult to maintain chain of command between all of the very different divisions functioning at once.

In the last few days however our air ops have been some of the most enjoyable things I've done in ps2 so far and have proven extremely effective imo.

Tonights informal training was no exception and I'd really like to thank everyone who took part. Moo my epic lib bomber racked up >220 kills in a little over 2 hours.

I look forward to doing more air ops with everyone post launch.[/quote]

Right, yea, with also pilots who were not that good in the sky as I recall, not playing effectively, together and supporting ground units who were so far into hostile lines that the air had a horrific time trying to reach them.
Then again I could focus on the ground division, get into a tank and drive off a cliff and say same thing.

Those who have no real heart or interest in stuff like this will always perform below par.

The 2nd time the air was attempted was a much better time round as it was more organised and focused and much more enjoyable.
Having said that even when there is no Air squad up and running I've been around in a Mossie regardless helping out the ground forces.

But if this is going ahead then it needs to be organised before launch. Who's keen on the idea, who wants to do a bit here and there, who wants to stay in the sky, roles, certs and so forth.