Dealing with alerts!

[Twido 42]

I wanted to share my thoughts about the new alert system and to provoke a little discussion about how we should go about dealing with them. Obviously the alert system is relatively new, but I think we can see a few trends and problems.
With each battle being a three way, any player of games will tell you that whoever is attacked most will probably lose. Unfortunately, from what I have seen so far, that seems to be us (although this might not be intentional). From the point of view of the VS and NC, this isn’t such a bad strategy; due to populations, we are the biggest threat to the NC so it is logical for them to focus on us. The VS profit by not to provoking the NC too much. On the other hand, we (the TR) don’t help ourselves by charging blindly in as soon as possible early on and drawing all the attention onto us.

When the alert sounds, the battle lasts for two hours and with most of each factions focus being on capturing bases, territory changes hands frequently (a lot of attack and little defence). Because of this, the amount of territory held after the first hour is not important to the final score. It is however, relevant to shaping who will be fighting who over the next (more important) hour. The final twenty minutes is complete chaos and also the most critical time. We can’t control the TR zergs being approximately 5 – 8% of the TR population, however during the initial phase I think we should focus our attacks in a way that maximises the number of NC territories adjacent to VS ones in an effort to entice them to fight each other. The second priority should be not to throw away bases that are easy to defend since retaking them during the second hour could take up too much of our resources.

During last night’s battle I had much sympathy for the platoon leader. At some points I looked at the map for the tactical over view and could see four or five of our zones being captured and it would take too long to mobilise and save them. At the same time there are too many voices trying to offer advice. Sometimes even if the advice is good, we are better off focusing on what we are told to do so that we at least do something and we reduce the stress on the leader (and avoid burning them out).
Towards the end, when things are going crazy, it is more important than ever to remain agile as an outfit. Most of the territories towards the ends were being attacked by only handfuls of people and as a big 25 man unit we cannot deal with the multiple situations. During this time, I think we could benefit from using the squads individually. When we started the alert we had 2 reapers but merged them because we had only six in one and around twenty in the other. Having one platoon is okay (even using one mumble channel), but maybe having the squads operate separately might have helped us towards the end.

I’d like to finish with some contempt! The thing that drives me crazy is playing really well (as we did most of last night) and capturing a defended base only for a massive greenie zerg to pull up in their tanks and sit around while the base captures eating their burgers. This happened on multiple occasions last night. As an outfit, we can’t shake sense into the greenies and make them do something useful, so I propose that we try to avoid the zerg where possible and just move on to the next base. It is frustrating to skip the bonuses, but during the final stages of the alert, time is of the essence.

So these are my thoughts, what do you think the best way of dealing with alerts is?

 

[McBawbagg]

you are 100% right that we need to at all times keep the front line between NC and VS as large as poss to keep them fighting each other. The TR always seems obsessed with capping territories in such a way that we basically form a wedge between the VS and NC and that's just outright stupid!!! In that respect I think the TR is causing its own downfall by making the NC and VS focus on us. Also towards the end ppl look to see who is in the lead and then focus on them. Being in the lead with 30 min to go like we were last night was not a good thing!

I think hour 1 is a total waste of time in these alerts. (Maybe with the new hex system the channelling of zergs into fewer and more predictable places may turn these alerts into more defensive wars in which grabbing early territory and then holding on becomes more important.) But for now imho we should leave the alert continent for the 1st hour and in the meantime grab 1 of the other conts and then move over for the final30-60 mins. This helps us get plenty of resources from territories on other conts for us to throw at the enemy when it really matters and hopefully with 45 or so min to go we'll have the least territory so the others focus on each other and then we come in and blindside them.

 

[fbh]

While the alert system is pretty new and many are still getting to grips with it should keep a thought of those that logged on with under 30mins to go.
Sitting in a queue for upto an hour in the hope of coming across is not ideal.

Issue I've been looking at is that when the alert system rolls in until that point we have no idea WHERE it will be. It's sometimes more like a lottery if it's on a continent that the Reapers are on.
If say Indar has 50% VS control, yet equal faction pop, and we're on Esamir that is a lot of ground to retake when we do go over. Also bear in mind that when an alert does pop pretty much every major outfit will be trying to get there asap.

That initial control held, or not held, is also a deciding factor in how alerts play out.

If you think that no major outfits are on an alert continent when it triggers and that it's only smaller outfits and squads going around, you can be certain that as soon as any outfit lands they will weigh up what is worth going for. Anything that is been held that is considered major will more than likely get a major defensive boost from the new comers.

As soon as we arrive on an alert continent we should look at the bigger picture and sod what the greenies are upto.
If it makes more sense to hold the West line and the major bases along that route for control % then that should be the plan and organise the Reapers around it.

I'm not a fan of running after every single bit of land that starts flashing, unless it is sitting next to, or near, a major area that we already hold.
It's not a tactically wise decision to do so either as it will stretch our battleline.

And when I say OUR I do mean OUR as in BRTD's battle-line - not the other outfits that are also on same continent.

But also on the flip side there are many players who wouldn't like the idea of baby sitting the west side of Esamir for 2hrs either...

It's also unfortunate that the new system is not in yet, as when that is active it will be easier to see what links to what and where we need to be in order to stop it affecting our zones.
Right now it's a bit of a mess with the system. Makes planning problematic.

Greenie zergs, on all factions, burn out almost as fast as they have arrived. They pile in force, wait for points, then pile to next area and unless your wanting to defeat a zerg with a zerg it's often a good tactic to weaken the point line by hitting it in the flanks.
Greenies are un-predictable at best, and should not EVER be relied upon to do anything - ever!

I never trust in a greenie cause simply they will not often do what you expect them to do.
I quite often hear the phase "leave it for the greenies" then we go else where and when you look back at where we have been the points either back in another factions hands or the greenies have ignored it.

Also as you said Twido, greenies often park up after a battle waiting for the points before moving on. Which in turn leaves other areas lacking defenders and been re-taken. And this happens all across each faction simply because players care more about points than about the bigger picture.

ANd you look at the time scale of said alerts -2hrs for a top pool of 20k exp, not bad is it?
Or is it...

What's 20k exp worth when taking over major bases during 2hrs game time? Each major base brings a large set exp, so doing half a dozen is around 20k.
Anyone wanna work that out? As am sure it's potentially more than 20k exp for the alert.

If I've lost you then think about each major base been worth 3k. So to make 20k exp that would be just over 6 bases. In under 2hrs that is very likely.
Alerts bring players in, so you'd think that under 2hrs if your not likely to be able to win the alert players will want exp for the time - so they sit around and leech.
Time frame wise it's easier to do little for exp than to work your butt off for 2hrs to potentially earn only a small % of the 20k.


How would we go about changing that attitude?
Well, 1 idea is to wait for new system to come in. Well fine that might do something but even then players will still goto a point that is almost taken for quick exp, we all have done it at some point.

Another idea is to do all the hard work and then move on when the greenies arrive and we miss out on the points cause we consider the alert and the continent more important. Problem here is 2 fold.
1 - we've just spent a great deal of time and energy at the base and we will loose the big pot that many care so much about
and 2 - I wouldn't trust a greenie under any circumstance, let alone a bunch of them.

They are like lemmings - if 1 sees fastest way to next objective is over a cliff then chances are high others will follow without thinking.
Unfortunately I've seen it done, and while it is comical it's also pathetic.


So in my mind that during normal Op times that the high energy cost of a main base assault should be rewarded with the nice points pool. This gives leaders time to ponder any changes in the flow of battle and any new intel that might have popped up.

If it's Ops during an alert I feel we should move off a main base as soon as we are comfortable that it's not going to have another faction come storming in the second we leave. Yea we miss out on the points, but 20k at once feels better than 2-3k in bits and pieces.

 

[welph]

Start using the /order-channel that it seems the VS/NC is using a lot, can't be any worse.

 

[dnaRIP]

I'm almost of the opinion that during the 1st hour we go to another cont. With 60 mins left we head back to the alert cont and use squads to cap hexes that can set up the VS and NC frontlines for them to duke it out the last 30 mins. Our last 30 mins is spent trying to expand our front lines against the NC and VS by capping smaller bases and defending the most defensible bases. My .02

 

[Dotz0r]

that is offcourse, if you can even get to the alert cont...



Alerts are quite flawed in the way that it attracts the wrong type of mentality. Many a times have we lost the initiative - whether that be a capping a cont or neutralize it to just flood the next continent.

In my opinion - a quick influx of TR will only be met by more enemies. If we - like DNA said, wait till the last hour, hopefully the NC/VS Havee no TR to fight so they focuss on each other - then when TR arrive, its surrounded by empty bases - and anyone defending will be out-stretched.

However we can only speak for ourselves. The TR will just go there anyways.

Orders chat - Majority are ignored. leader chat is better. Order chat is 90% bullshit. Most of the time its a solo guy getting raped by hardly "biggest vs force evah"

 

[fbh]

[quote="dnaRIP" post=15643]I'm almost of the opinion that during the 1st hour we go to another cont. With 60 mins left we head back to the alert cont and use squads to cap hexes that can set up the VS and NC frontlines for them to duke it out the last 30 mins. Our last 30 mins is spent trying to expand our front lines against the NC and VS by capping smaller bases and defending the most defensible bases. My .02[/quote]

And what about the members who don't have subs and end up getting stuck in long ass queues and not able to contribute to a Reaper in any sense?
You just leave them behind for your "final 60 min" plan?

 

[Twido 42]

As several people have said, if we are not in as an outfit right at the start then we will end up people unable to join us. Even as a member, the queues can get very long depending on the time of day. I also heard somewhere that there is a 20 xp bonus for fighting on the alert continent.

I would suggest that for the first hour or so we focus on defense. By making it difficult for the other factions to take our territory, we can encourage them to find easier targets in eachother.

 

[Cheers]

Orders chat - Majority are ignored. leader chat is better. Order chat is 90% bullshit. Most of the time its a solo guy getting raped by hardly "biggest vs force evah"

Mmh, my experiences with the order chat have been significantly different =)
Perhaps rather than using it to try to steer the zerg, it can be used to quickly and efficiently convey information towards other outfits. If we consider the zerg uncontrolable, then don't try to control them. A simple line like: "[BRTD] will hold Zurvan Amp station" will immediatly give valuable information to all serious outfits and we can still easily ignore all the rampant ones. Use it as a means of information rather than orders.
I'm just saying, if it helps, it helps. And if it doesn't, no harm done. And who knows, it just might be the beginning of an actual continental strategie.

 

[McBawbagg]

the cynic in me would say its just another way of enticing ppl to subscribe by sticking them in Qs for over an hour each time

 

[Cheers]

[quote="McBawbagg" post=15682]the cynic in me would say its just another way of enticing ppl to subscribe by sticking them in Qs for over an hour each time[/quote]

Mmmh, I doubt it. Especially considering you can still continue to play during that hour. I honestly don't understand the massive hatred some people have with these ques. Yes they are annoying if you want to fight with your outfit, there is no denying that. But you can just press 'continue playing', fight a few battles and instantly teleport the moment the que finally ends. Or tis this one more of those "people don't know it exists" kinda thing?

 

[Twido 42]

So, I got my chance to lead during an alert on Amerish last night and I’ll give my feedback of what I thought went well and some of the problems we had as I see it.
At the start we owned most of the continent, including the middle and my plan for the initial stage was to focus on stopping the NC and VS attacks at the edge of the map thereby drawing them towards the centre and each other. What actually happened was the NC and VS pretty much ignored the middle of the map and pushed us hard down the edges. Looking at the tactical map, I could see that the VS and NC were fighting each other to a certain degree but put most of their effort into attacking us. This isn’t unreasonable for the NC since we are their biggest threat and it might be habit for the VS since we used to be their biggest threat not too long ago. The other factor is that, on Amerish, the centre of the map is very hilly making moving around difficult and has defensible bases. This makes the flow of the continent into a kind of circle, or more accurately two concentric circles.

All in all, I was happy with the first hour or so. As an outfit we really kicked some bottom, blunting the enemy’s attacks and pulling off some impressive last minute re-secures. It is a shame the VC and VS focused on us and avoided our territories in the middle that I had hoped they would go for but going into the last 45 minutes we were in good shape.

Moving into the second more critical stage, my plan was to launch lighting fast raids to vulnerable NC locations that are preferably away from the VS. What actually happened in the last stage was the NC took the last VS bio lab and the VS gave up entirely on defending their southern territories pushing us with all their strength (they did regain some of these right at the end but they were really aiming for second place by preferentially attacking us). Both the VS and NC launched a whole series of attacks with small numbers on as many of our territories as they could. On the tactical map I could see four or five of our territories ticking down with only enemies, or enemy squad detected.

Before talking about what I did wrong, I should mention what went right. As an outfit, our response times were pretty good and I felt that we were playing really well; I can only imagine the NC frustration when we show up at the last minute and deny them a capture. Secondly, having someone on the TRAM channel was useful. It would be far too complicated to have the leader communicating with TRAM and dealing with the situation, having someone else doing that and providing the important updates should be something we do more often.

So what went wrong? Well the first thing to do is put it in context. There were about 14 of us playing towards the end, which is a little over 2% of the total TR forces. As an outfit we have to be realistic about what we can achieve and we should be proud that we were consistently punching above our weight. That said, there are a few things I would have done differently. At the end, in the time it took us to take one NC territory, we could have stopped the small NC and VS squads from capturing two or even three of ours. Using Galaxies, I would have used us as a rapid response unit and relied on the rest of the TR to push out. Under last night’s circumstances I don’t think we could have won but we would have finished with more. My other mistake was to dither a little with some decisions, there was a few times that when we got to the way point the situation was different to how the tactical map had indicated and we should have moved on. That is my mistake, but you have to accept mistakes will always happen.

Finally thanks for the effort last night and thanks to Frankie and Jeff for the support! Hopefully we can keep on learning and improving.

 

[Bennybones]

I think you did and excellent job last night Twido and I think the plan which you laid out in chat was absolutely right. From what we've seen so far it's obvious that taking a lot of territory quickly at the start is an almost guaranteed loss as it is so easy to take back. It's better to float around trying to deny captures and tying the VS/NC down. Then, towards the end we try to snag up empty territory.

But such tactics are planned within the vacuum of itself. In reality there's a lot of outside factors we can't control, which was clearly shown last night as well. Our influence over these alerts are going to be limited to the situation we find ourselves in towards the last 30 minutes. I don't think we could have had much influence last night on the outcome, I think we could only have set up a situation which could have been beneficial providing the circumstances were right and I think that's what we did.

 

[Rolfsky]

Solid leading there Twido. I have to admit I'm not too fond of the alert system atm as it makes for hasty and stressful but not necessarily fun play, especially when you're leading. I have good hope this will change drastically with the upcoming lattice system though.

As for now, coordination is king in these engagements. To make a chance of winning you will probably need to utilize all the coordination tools available: Leader/public chat, TRAM/CR6, public platoons, etc. Other than that it's a matter of avoiding contested/3-way areas (middle of the map) and going for the kill in the last 30 min.